So i've noticed on forums people saying that PTS 100 renown rank Templates are up and running. So i've went down and used WarTest icon on my desktop.
First thing you download 392 MB of data, so better do it now unless you want to watch downloading progress bar.
Anyway.
I've created renown rank 100 Template Chosen.
First thing you notice is the fact that there's a lot of naked people running around. That includes you too.
New armour set that your character is wearing (warpforged renown rank 100 armour set) is invisible, i.e. has no graphical/visual appearance in game. At least not yet. Wearing that suit of armour pumps dps chosen with dps build, gear and tallies to wooping 1300 str (somewhere around), 306 damage bonus (un-procced, without lotd cloaks rings and proper dps jewelry), yes you've read it properly. Soft cap past 80 rr is raised to at least 1500. From what i've read in advice channel there was a choppa that got to 1500 strenght (with brute force, don't wanna live foreva i can see it done easily).
Another thing worth mentioning is the fact that stat buffing tactics have increased ammount of attribute bonus. My rugged was giving me something around 184 tougness. So past 80 your character feels like 41-46 rank tho it isnt.
Btw tried out some dpsing on lotd champs. Critting Ravage for 1.9k on champion of sebok wasn't such a seldom sight to behold (FO, Taunt, warpforged +300 melee power proc)
100 rr dps classes gonna one shot everything below 80.
100 rr dps tank's will deal some crazy dmg (BO/BG/SM/IB)
If i ever reach 100rr and grind my arse off to get 100rr 2her i might be finally satisfied with my chosen dmg...
But i've went too far from the main goodie. New weapons in WAR. 100rr Weaponry.
Weapons do have active appearance on PTS so we can look how new goodies actualy appear in game.
Nearly all weapons have nice looking glowing/burning/etc effects engulfing them.
Not all classes have such nice effects on them (black ork that just spawned next to me didn't have any glowing/burning/etc effects on his 2h weapon.. tho it did look very nice, same went for 1h swords of DoK and 1h hammers of Marauder, which looked like crap btw).
Tho i would prefer to customize that sort of effects with some nice new tradeskill like enchantement that would add proc's effects to weapons or additional stats.
From what i saw marauder hammers are utter crap. Magus'es have nice staffs, gobbos have scrap built staffs with lol looks as usual,Oh DoK's have as usual spiky, sharp looking scimitars that are looong. Couldn't get any more info on the other classes because dev's announced that they've found some bug and they are closing down the PTS. That was basically the end.
Anyway here are links to pictures :
100 rr 2h DPS weapon
http://img149.imageshack.us/f/watthas000.jpg/
100 rr 2h Defensive weapon
http://img833.imageshack.us/f/watthas001.jpg/
100 rr 1h weapon no.1
http://img816.imageshack.us/f/watthas002.jpg/
100 rr 1h weapon no.2
http://img221.imageshack.us/f/watthas004.jpg/
100 rr Shield
http://img26.imageshack.us/f/watthas003.jpg/
10/31/2010
Total Revamp on Dps trees for TANKS.
Equipping FO for chosens/kotbs doesn't change much. Or as you may call it changes, us to squishies without increasing our dmg by any noticable ammount. We just get very squishy then, without any real benefits.
First thing that needs to be said BG/IB/BO/SM need some serious buffs for theyr low/crippled/lacking utility. Afterwards dev's need to think about some tweaks to low, crappy dps of kotbs/chosens.
BG/IB/BO/SM need to get at least one really good (like stagger, crippling strikes) utility skill/tacitc/etc when they are in full dps mode, just like kotbs/chosens can do now.
FO should make a serious difference (for all tanks).
Maybe it would decrease taunt cooldown/increase dmg bonus? read forward.
OR :
None should be able to do that, then every tank should have very similar dps tree, CS+RB should be somewhat mirrored to other tanks or moved to other tree. If all tank's dps trees were made to be very similar they should consist of :
+3 tactic reducing cost of all dps tree related skills dps by X%, or just whatever you like
+5 skill some minor aoe utility/medium single target offensive utility (like aoe snare with dmg 25-50% above spammable, improvement goodies increased range at cost of AP, increased dmg/cooldown by cost of AP/reduced radius, making it aoe cone if ST at cost of lowered damage/increased AP cost)
+7 tactic +X% 2h weapon dmg +Y something (improvement goodies to the left/right might increase further +x% 2h weapon dmg, add more +Y)
+9 skill single target knockdown for 3-5 seconds with 10 sec cooldown (improvement goodies to the left/right might make it longer/more dmg on hit/longer duration downsides would be increased AP cost)
+11 tactic +X% 2h weapon crit chance increase (goodies to the left/right might add +X% crit dmg effect, increase +x% crit increase by some ammount like 5-10%)
+13 skill one big hitting, 10-20 second cooldown ability with some minor post effects/dots/debuffs/etc (with dmg 50-100% above spammable, improvement goodies might decrease cooldown by max 5 sec this would require huge increase in AP cost, increase dmg at cost of AP)
+15 morale 4 something more useful like 2k insta hit with some post effect/dot/debuff
Good spammable tied to it with any necessary debuffing methods to increase your own dmg vs single target (chosens/kotbs case comes to mind mainly).
each tactic/skill step could then unlock short path to spend points to the left and right. To spend your points further.
You should be able to put all your points into one tree to maximize your dps, picking up nice things to further buff your dps thus sacrificing all utility. Maybe put some paralell unlockables at let's say 13+ spec for each tree, from that point you have one branch going to the left and one to the right which have few squares you need to put points in to reach an unlockable skill/tactic/passive to spend more points. Something like if you spend points and put more points in path to the left you get "increases FO damage bonus by +X%", "+X Melee Power", "+X% Dmg bonus" (this one not much max 5-10%) and if you go to the right you can unlock things like "5% chance on hit to debuff (only for you, only for your dmg) armour/resistances by X", "+X% Parry", "+X% Crit Dmg". So this way if u want to spec dps u need to put all points in respective tree to unlock nice goodies but sacrificing unlocking/getting anything from any other tree.
Each tree (dps, tank, debuff) trees for all tanks should have that kind of things.
Those opening branches should be open and defined for other classes as well.
OR if you put 13++ points in dps tree (or make it left/right after +13 spec, unlockable goodie) it could further improve/unlock Charge feature ive described below.
Charge Feature (might be tightly related to FO being used)
You have 5 charges. 5 at the beggining of fight. You use 1 charge per skill used. You get 1 Charge every 4 seconds (or every AA Hit? this would give s/b tanks that want to go dps, just a nice cookie to go for). Each charge is consumed when skill is used. That one charge used on skill adds flat ammount of damage to damage done, afterwards, after all mitigation/resists. As of Precision strike hits for 600 after all mitigation/resists/toughness/etc calculated, at the end of that calculation charge tick is added by ammount of +X, it does'nt buff dot's damage so no ticks of dots like 70 +X every second, it only applies at first tick of a skill.
This feature might only appear active when you use FO. Doesn't go through absorb shields, morale buffs, +100% parry/block whatever. Its treated as normal damage.
Buff shouldn't be big somewhere between 100-300. It wouldnt affect much those that are critting 2k-3k on regular basis. It would help low/medium dps tanks like SM,IB and mostly Kotbs/Chosens to increase theyr effective dmg a little.
Just brainstorming here.
P.S. im toying around in Photoshop gonna come up with a picture of changed dps tree just to show what do i mean.
Edit : here it is, very very rough and quick version of new sophisticated Dread Tree (chosen's dps tree)
img683.imageshack.us/f/dreadv2.jpg/
First thing that needs to be said BG/IB/BO/SM need some serious buffs for theyr low/crippled/lacking utility. Afterwards dev's need to think about some tweaks to low, crappy dps of kotbs/chosens.
BG/IB/BO/SM need to get at least one really good (like stagger, crippling strikes) utility skill/tacitc/etc when they are in full dps mode, just like kotbs/chosens can do now.
FO should make a serious difference (for all tanks).
Maybe it would decrease taunt cooldown/increase dmg bonus? read forward.
OR :
None should be able to do that, then every tank should have very similar dps tree, CS+RB should be somewhat mirrored to other tanks or moved to other tree. If all tank's dps trees were made to be very similar they should consist of :
+3 tactic reducing cost of all dps tree related skills dps by X%, or just whatever you like
+5 skill some minor aoe utility/medium single target offensive utility (like aoe snare with dmg 25-50% above spammable, improvement goodies increased range at cost of AP, increased dmg/cooldown by cost of AP/reduced radius, making it aoe cone if ST at cost of lowered damage/increased AP cost)
+7 tactic +X% 2h weapon dmg +Y something (improvement goodies to the left/right might increase further +x% 2h weapon dmg, add more +Y)
+9 skill single target knockdown for 3-5 seconds with 10 sec cooldown (improvement goodies to the left/right might make it longer/more dmg on hit/longer duration downsides would be increased AP cost)
+11 tactic +X% 2h weapon crit chance increase (goodies to the left/right might add +X% crit dmg effect, increase +x% crit increase by some ammount like 5-10%)
+13 skill one big hitting, 10-20 second cooldown ability with some minor post effects/dots/debuffs/etc (with dmg 50-100% above spammable, improvement goodies might decrease cooldown by max 5 sec this would require huge increase in AP cost, increase dmg at cost of AP)
+15 morale 4 something more useful like 2k insta hit with some post effect/dot/debuff
Good spammable tied to it with any necessary debuffing methods to increase your own dmg vs single target (chosens/kotbs case comes to mind mainly).
each tactic/skill step could then unlock short path to spend points to the left and right. To spend your points further.
You should be able to put all your points into one tree to maximize your dps, picking up nice things to further buff your dps thus sacrificing all utility. Maybe put some paralell unlockables at let's say 13+ spec for each tree, from that point you have one branch going to the left and one to the right which have few squares you need to put points in to reach an unlockable skill/tactic/passive to spend more points. Something like if you spend points and put more points in path to the left you get "increases FO damage bonus by +X%", "+X Melee Power", "+X% Dmg bonus" (this one not much max 5-10%) and if you go to the right you can unlock things like "5% chance on hit to debuff (only for you, only for your dmg) armour/resistances by X", "+X% Parry", "+X% Crit Dmg". So this way if u want to spec dps u need to put all points in respective tree to unlock nice goodies but sacrificing unlocking/getting anything from any other tree.
Each tree (dps, tank, debuff) trees for all tanks should have that kind of things.
Those opening branches should be open and defined for other classes as well.
OR if you put 13++ points in dps tree (or make it left/right after +13 spec, unlockable goodie) it could further improve/unlock Charge feature ive described below.
Charge Feature (might be tightly related to FO being used)
You have 5 charges. 5 at the beggining of fight. You use 1 charge per skill used. You get 1 Charge every 4 seconds (or every AA Hit? this would give s/b tanks that want to go dps, just a nice cookie to go for). Each charge is consumed when skill is used. That one charge used on skill adds flat ammount of damage to damage done, afterwards, after all mitigation/resists. As of Precision strike hits for 600 after all mitigation/resists/toughness/etc calculated, at the end of that calculation charge tick is added by ammount of +X, it does'nt buff dot's damage so no ticks of dots like 70 +X every second, it only applies at first tick of a skill.
This feature might only appear active when you use FO. Doesn't go through absorb shields, morale buffs, +100% parry/block whatever. Its treated as normal damage.
Buff shouldn't be big somewhere between 100-300. It wouldnt affect much those that are critting 2k-3k on regular basis. It would help low/medium dps tanks like SM,IB and mostly Kotbs/Chosens to increase theyr effective dmg a little.
Just brainstorming here.
P.S. im toying around in Photoshop gonna come up with a picture of changed dps tree just to show what do i mean.
Edit : here it is, very very rough and quick version of new sophisticated Dread Tree (chosen's dps tree)
img683.imageshack.us/f/dreadv2.jpg/
10/06/2010
Precision Strike, Cleave rework idea
I think precision strike and cleave need some fixing
First of all : I mean speccing dps tree and not even using spammable thats tied to it.
Cleave should be turned into ravage, defendable against, and with base resistance ignore tied to it. Higher you spec more damage and resistances it does ignore just like precision strike
So speccing 15 points (maxing out dps tree would give) Cleave would hit for 550 spiritual damage and 200 spiritual resistance ignore (might not stack with resistance aura) if fully specced dread
or Precision Strike would hit for 550 physical damage and 1250 armour (25ignore if fully specced Conquest.
15 poing spec precision strike/cleave 550 dmg 200 spirit resist ignore/1250 armour ignore
7 points spec 330 dmg about 90-100 spirit resist ignore/about 600-700 armour ignore
and so on.
Precision strike ignore armour part :
Well i thought about template max armour which gonna be around 5k which is around 100% damage mitigation.
It gets softcapped to 75%
So my question here would be :
That 5000 armour of your target template after softcapping armor mitigation (armour mitigation softcap's always at 75%) is more like 100% (5k) - 25% (1250) = 3750 armour left when some1 is hitting you? even tho you have 5k in you char screen?
bcs if you counted that one out Precision strike with 1250 armour ignore which places you roughly in 50% armour mitigation and if you add RF+base weapon skill (which should give you about 50% armour penetration, so armour penetration just obstructs 50% of whats left = 50% of 50% armor mitigation means 25% left) you are somewhere around 25% of armour damage mitigation left.
Or instead flat number just scale it 35% (which is 10% more than it is now) if full conquest, 20.5 (in favour of kotbs :P) if 7 point, etc.
Chosens now.
Magical resistances firstly for clean numbers i took approximate numbers for clearer explanation :
800 spiritual resistance states for 42% spiritual damage resistance (roughly for some it was 812, some it was 790, which was either 40 or 42took it from my chosen resistance chart with aura on)
400 spiritual resistance states for 23% spiritual damage resistance (without my resistance aura off)
And we debuff half of that near 400 resistance self buff onto our enemies which is rougly about 200 (188 debuff to enemies, 378 self buff both of which only go live if you are full specced discord).
Avarage enemy has somewhere around 400-600 resistances. Soft cap for resistances begins from 40% magic resist which goes with number somewhere very near to 700 magical resistance attribute before soft cap kicks in (from my counting 680 is near exact number when softcap kicks in). So if 17 points of resistance states for 1% magical resistance... approximetly, and if i didnt make any mistake..
So since ive templated for precision strike sake 5000 (for softcap) armour target, ill give 700 spirit resistance target for chosens ravage (700 softcap/or just very near softcap)
700 resists states for 40% magical dmg resistance. New Cleave with magic resist ignore built in with full dread spec would ignore flat 200 of spiritual resist which is -11% resist on hit. 29% resistance is left.
First of all : I mean speccing dps tree and not even using spammable thats tied to it.
Cleave should be turned into ravage, defendable against, and with base resistance ignore tied to it. Higher you spec more damage and resistances it does ignore just like precision strike
So speccing 15 points (maxing out dps tree would give) Cleave would hit for 550 spiritual damage and 200 spiritual resistance ignore (might not stack with resistance aura) if fully specced dread
or Precision Strike would hit for 550 physical damage and 1250 armour (25ignore if fully specced Conquest.
15 poing spec precision strike/cleave 550 dmg 200 spirit resist ignore/1250 armour ignore
7 points spec 330 dmg about 90-100 spirit resist ignore/about 600-700 armour ignore
and so on.
Precision strike ignore armour part :
Well i thought about template max armour which gonna be around 5k which is around 100% damage mitigation.
It gets softcapped to 75%
So my question here would be :
That 5000 armour of your target template after softcapping armor mitigation (armour mitigation softcap's always at 75%) is more like 100% (5k) - 25% (1250) = 3750 armour left when some1 is hitting you? even tho you have 5k in you char screen?
bcs if you counted that one out Precision strike with 1250 armour ignore which places you roughly in 50% armour mitigation and if you add RF+base weapon skill (which should give you about 50% armour penetration, so armour penetration just obstructs 50% of whats left = 50% of 50% armor mitigation means 25% left) you are somewhere around 25% of armour damage mitigation left.
Or instead flat number just scale it 35% (which is 10% more than it is now) if full conquest, 20.5 (in favour of kotbs :P) if 7 point, etc.
Chosens now.
Magical resistances firstly for clean numbers i took approximate numbers for clearer explanation :
800 spiritual resistance states for 42% spiritual damage resistance (roughly for some it was 812, some it was 790, which was either 40 or 42took it from my chosen resistance chart with aura on)
400 spiritual resistance states for 23% spiritual damage resistance (without my resistance aura off)
And we debuff half of that near 400 resistance self buff onto our enemies which is rougly about 200 (188 debuff to enemies, 378 self buff both of which only go live if you are full specced discord).
Avarage enemy has somewhere around 400-600 resistances. Soft cap for resistances begins from 40% magic resist which goes with number somewhere very near to 700 magical resistance attribute before soft cap kicks in (from my counting 680 is near exact number when softcap kicks in). So if 17 points of resistance states for 1% magical resistance... approximetly, and if i didnt make any mistake..
So since ive templated for precision strike sake 5000 (for softcap) armour target, ill give 700 spirit resistance target for chosens ravage (700 softcap/or just very near softcap)
700 resists states for 40% magical dmg resistance. New Cleave with magic resist ignore built in with full dread spec would ignore flat 200 of spiritual resist which is -11% resist on hit. 29% resistance is left.
10/04/2010
How WAR (approximetly) should've looked like.
Look at Barak Varr Diorama thats sitting on that French Page.
Index :
http://www.zeliste40k.fr/index.php?q=gals&idx=61&from=12&gal=61
Random Diorama Picture :
http://www.zeliste40k.fr/index.php?q=im&gal=61&idx=2027&from=14
Compare it to how does WAR look like/perform, and how it should which is presented nicely on that diorama and do :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylLCOSIvSjU
There you go.
Index :
http://www.zeliste40k.fr/index.php?q=gals&idx=61&from=12&gal=61
Random Diorama Picture :
http://www.zeliste40k.fr/index.php?q=im&gal=61&idx=2027&from=14
Compare it to how does WAR look like/perform, and how it should which is presented nicely on that diorama and do :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylLCOSIvSjU
There you go.
Kotbs dps from Chosen loldps point of view.
Just done some Template Kotbs to see how hard could i hit in maximum dps.
6x Dps Sov, 3x WL, Royal 2h.
Full points in Conquest and one point in KD in tank tree. 909 str with aura, 495 Weapon skill (renown 5x wsk, 3x str, 3x parry, and some points left put either str/wsk), +123 str aura, +111 toughness aura.
Bellow Commands, FO, Encouraged Aim, RF
RF, m2, sov +130 proc gets me from 205 damage bonus to near 300. Tho M2 felt like it wasnt stacking with RF. But still you get with either rf/m2 somewhere around 1150 str and 700 wsk.
Champion clothie caster guarding Martyr's square. (without taunt with rf+sov bonus and m2) i critted roughly around 1020 (1010-1030).
To do that i needed to be 80 rr with best gear (well i could swap 2x LoD glyph rings for something with more str/mp or toy around with solid numbers and go lotd cloak+ring and ring str+mp with 3x wl, 5xsov <no cloak>) is barely denting 1k border.
My 75 chosen with FO, with 3xSov, 2xWL, 2x GiantSlayer (+6% crit, +41 melee power) OR 2x INV, LV weapon (on mah way to get Royal 2h), lotd cloak+jewel, str/mp lotd ring, nearly soft capping str (1040 or so, if i mix around my gear i softcap Str) with aura on, nearly 300 melee power, specced 13 dread (with CS, OB, RB), 12 discord (quake only, got it higher for stronger ravage) is passing quite often 1.2k (if taunted) border with occasional 1.4 on highly debuffed/enraged slayer/lowbie/squishy target with Ravage.
If i use cleave (WH only, saw it happening yesterday) 1-1.2k crits, but usually do somewhere between 700-900. No idea how did that happen but i guess it must've been one of the marauders (quite many you see these days...must be that incoming changes that draws them) Cutting Clawed that unlucky WH.
I might've done few things wrong with this Kotbs template im not rly well familiar with Kotbs (got Kotbs alt which is 31 rank).
I mightve just went for totally str/wsk build in renown just passing any parry but since i was trying to go physical build and runefang is the thing u want to have i felt that having that 30% parry all the time would be somewhat wanted. If i didnt get that i would probably had parry around 10% but str very near soft cap and more of weaponskill to near 600.
My feelings from 80 rr kotbs template loldps build/itemized :
- Class needs Precision strike being buffed by flat (at least) 100 dmg or that armour ignore part fixed/re-adjusted to ignore more/work better/properly
- Runefang tactic just cries out for a good synergy skill like self buff parry by certain ammount (like instead of that self armour buff it shouldve been like +10-20% parry for 20 seconds, 15 sec cooldown), or just make RF being related to self armour buff so when you use it RF procs off instantly apart from being procced from parry.
- MS totally removed/re-adjusted to make all skills do elemental damage not just for this one particular tree OR MS built into whole tree and MS turned to smthg else, or just turn 3x stack dot turned into one big magical hitting elemental damage ability ravage like.
Keep in mind both my chosen and template kotbs are high end, end game pumped characters with end game items/stats to do such things.
Now imagine a life of a mid renown Kotbs/Chosen as a 2h dps. Terrible. Invader chosen can maybe crit somewhere around 900.
Invader kotbs would probably crit for nowhere more than 800.
Then i would opt for Chosens Cleave turned from undefendable to something like new marauders impale (seems like precision's strike armour ignore thingy sux bawlz anyway), and while we at it Kotbs Precision Strike as well. But without that positional requirement. Because both Chosens and Kotbs dont have armour debuff, and since we got so many things we can offer to everyone around us it would be fair to give us armour debuff skill. So flat base armour reduction on hit for Cleave/Precision Strike would only affect those skills and us.
6x Dps Sov, 3x WL, Royal 2h.
Full points in Conquest and one point in KD in tank tree. 909 str with aura, 495 Weapon skill (renown 5x wsk, 3x str, 3x parry, and some points left put either str/wsk), +123 str aura, +111 toughness aura.
Bellow Commands, FO, Encouraged Aim, RF
RF, m2, sov +130 proc gets me from 205 damage bonus to near 300. Tho M2 felt like it wasnt stacking with RF. But still you get with either rf/m2 somewhere around 1150 str and 700 wsk.
Champion clothie caster guarding Martyr's square. (without taunt with rf+sov bonus and m2) i critted roughly around 1020 (1010-1030).
To do that i needed to be 80 rr with best gear (well i could swap 2x LoD glyph rings for something with more str/mp or toy around with solid numbers and go lotd cloak+ring and ring str+mp with 3x wl, 5xsov <no cloak>) is barely denting 1k border.
My 75 chosen with FO, with 3xSov, 2xWL, 2x GiantSlayer (+6% crit, +41 melee power) OR 2x INV, LV weapon (on mah way to get Royal 2h), lotd cloak+jewel, str/mp lotd ring, nearly soft capping str (1040 or so, if i mix around my gear i softcap Str) with aura on, nearly 300 melee power, specced 13 dread (with CS, OB, RB), 12 discord (quake only, got it higher for stronger ravage) is passing quite often 1.2k (if taunted) border with occasional 1.4 on highly debuffed/enraged slayer/lowbie/squishy target with Ravage.
If i use cleave (WH only, saw it happening yesterday) 1-1.2k crits, but usually do somewhere between 700-900. No idea how did that happen but i guess it must've been one of the marauders (quite many you see these days...must be that incoming changes that draws them) Cutting Clawed that unlucky WH.
I might've done few things wrong with this Kotbs template im not rly well familiar with Kotbs (got Kotbs alt which is 31 rank).
I mightve just went for totally str/wsk build in renown just passing any parry but since i was trying to go physical build and runefang is the thing u want to have i felt that having that 30% parry all the time would be somewhat wanted. If i didnt get that i would probably had parry around 10% but str very near soft cap and more of weaponskill to near 600.
My feelings from 80 rr kotbs template loldps build/itemized :
- Class needs Precision strike being buffed by flat (at least) 100 dmg or that armour ignore part fixed/re-adjusted to ignore more/work better/properly
- Runefang tactic just cries out for a good synergy skill like self buff parry by certain ammount (like instead of that self armour buff it shouldve been like +10-20% parry for 20 seconds, 15 sec cooldown), or just make RF being related to self armour buff so when you use it RF procs off instantly apart from being procced from parry.
- MS totally removed/re-adjusted to make all skills do elemental damage not just for this one particular tree OR MS built into whole tree and MS turned to smthg else, or just turn 3x stack dot turned into one big magical hitting elemental damage ability ravage like.
Keep in mind both my chosen and template kotbs are high end, end game pumped characters with end game items/stats to do such things.
Now imagine a life of a mid renown Kotbs/Chosen as a 2h dps. Terrible. Invader chosen can maybe crit somewhere around 900.
Invader kotbs would probably crit for nowhere more than 800.
Then i would opt for Chosens Cleave turned from undefendable to something like new marauders impale (seems like precision's strike armour ignore thingy sux bawlz anyway), and while we at it Kotbs Precision Strike as well. But without that positional requirement. Because both Chosens and Kotbs dont have armour debuff, and since we got so many things we can offer to everyone around us it would be fair to give us armour debuff skill. So flat base armour reduction on hit for Cleave/Precision Strike would only affect those skills and us.
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